Idlewild Couple Still a Mystery

By The New York Times
JFK Passengers Who are these mystery passengers? (Photo: Port Authority of New York and New Jersey) Enlarge this image.

Update, Aug. 20 | After several weeks of research, City Room has concluded that the upper left of the four photographs, at right, depicts Marc Chagall and his second wife, Valentina Brodsky, known as Vava. Our research-intensive journey involved our readers, historians, archivists, writers and curators in the United States and France — and even the former Rolling Stones bass guitarist (and accomplished photographer) Bill Wyman. Therefore, the winner of the Pop Quiz — and the recipient of our belated congratulations — is Joe, who correctly named the people in all photographs at 11:46 a.m. on July 30, the day of the Pop Quiz.

Original Post, Aug. 5 | After last week’s Pop Quiz, we thought some astute City Room reader would quickly help us identify the mystery couple in this old picture from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey’s incomplete archives.

To mark the 60th anniversary of Kennedy Airport, we asked readers to identify people shown arriving on the tarmac with fanfare in four pictures provided by the authority.

This undated photo shows a couple arriving the airport (probably when it was still known as Idlewild). The archive mistakenly identified this couple as David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel, and his wife, Paula. Photo comparisons and interviews with experts confirmed the error but failed to identify the couple. (A number of readers in the comments have been making a persuasive case that the picture shows the painter Marc Chagall and his second wife, Vava, sometime in 1959-1961. We’ll keep pursuing that possibility.)

Still on the case is a reader named Nat, who wrote this week:

Concerning the first photo, based on further (but not exhaustive) examination of other photos and materials, of all the possibilities mentioned thus far, the only one that I have not been able to rule out is Édouard Daladier (who was my idea)….

Compare the first photo to several front-face photos of Daladier, preferably post-war, and see what you think.

Nat puts forth “further directions for detective work that The Times’s resourceful journalists can better initiate than me”:

  1. The woman in the first photo would be Daladier’s second wife, Jeanne Boucoiran. When they married he was 67, she 44. That age difference would fit the couple in the photo. She was both a French government official and a part-time professor of French at Middlebury College, but at this date that’s probably a long-shot in terms of identification assistance.
  2. Daladier’s son, Jean Daladier, in 1995 published his father’s “Prison Journal, 1940-1945” (Boulder: Westview Press). The book had a foreword by Stanley Hoffman, a Harvard professor (Center for European Studies) who might be able to identify Daladier (or whomever) in a photo.
  3. If you have access to Paris Match archives, its issue “du 19 janvier 1952” has an article on “LE MARIAGE LE PLUS SECRET DE L’ANNEE 1951: EDOUARD DALADIER EPOUSE JEANNE BOUCOIRAN” which perhaps includes a photograph.

    4. Of course, this may be completely off-base (and having had the Daladier idea, I don’t fully trust my own photo comparisons), but I am hoping that, City Room having stirred this up, you will find some excitement in the historical photo-detective work, the skills for which are useful for, and can be gained by, studying NYC history. And after all, this may be a rare photograph of the couple joined by “le mariage le plus secret de l’année.”

Alas, we are not historians. We’re stumped. But this seems like a perfect chance to try some of that crowd-sourcing we keep hearing about. Experts, please step forward!

Comments are no longer being accepted.

bruce egert August 5, 2008 · 1:23 pm

the gentleman looks like my college earth science professor and the woman looks like a clerical worker at a law firm i was once associated with in the late 70s. I will try to recall their names in the unlikely event that they are the same people

Zac August 5, 2008 · 1:27 pm

Call in Errol Morris!

Adaggio August 5, 2008 · 1:31 pm

I thought the woman was Maria Callas at first glance. The man looks like a French man who was a famous director.

Pudding August 5, 2008 · 1:39 pm

If the readers, and not the Times, identify the people in this photo, I am going to only read comments from now on, and refuse to read the actual paper.

David August 5, 2008 · 1:43 pm

Regarding the aircraft, a news item from Pacific Stars & Stripes, Oct. 24, 1959.

707 for Air France

SEATTLE, Wash. (AP) — The first Boeing 707 intercontinental jet to be delivered to Air France was christened “Chateau de Versailles” at ceremonies at Boeing Field Tuesday.

———————

There were more jets, similarly named (Chateau de Fontainebleau).

Hank August 5, 2008 · 1:56 pm

I don’t know who the woman is, but surely the man is Zelig.

Patrick C August 5, 2008 · 2:14 pm

The man is Barry Ziegler, owned a pawn shop in Hackensack. Women is Mimi Ortiz, once a consort to Bautista.

A.E. Moore August 5, 2008 · 2:14 pm

I think it must be Marc Chagall and his second wife Vava (Valentina) Brodsky. Here is a link to an image of them: //test.svs.lt/images/daile/daile2006_2_103.jpg

Alphonse Credenza August 5, 2008 · 2:19 pm

Ephraim Zildis, magic critic, friend of Houdini, supporter of Mussolini’s invasion of Ethiopia and concert trianglist, and his beautiful assistant, Shana Dilderstein, late Ubersturmfuhrer of the SS.

csts August 5, 2008 · 2:22 pm

Why not, O great Times, simply contact Stanley Hoffman at Harvard and ask him, as the knowledgeable first reader suggests? S/he has already provided the crowd-sourcing benefit you seek; now you merely need to follow through…

OLM August 5, 2008 · 2:28 pm

The man actually does bear a strong resemblance to Daladier, see //www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/daladbio/200.jpg

Benjamin Hemric August 5, 2008 · 2:29 pm

Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable about fashion history can at least help pin down the date of the photograph. Not being an expert, my guess is that the people (who are presumably affluent and wearing up-to-date styles) are wearing clothing from the late-1940s, or possibly early-1950s.

Also, although one can’t see much of the plane in the photograph, it seems to me that it’s a propeller plane and not a Boeing 707 (which began commercial service from Idlewild in late 1958). Also, the graphics on the plane and the stairway, seem to me to be from the late 1940s / early 1950s, rather than from the jet plane era.

Stuart August 5, 2008 · 2:39 pm

From the visible lettering it looks like the airplane pictured might be Air France’s ill-fated Boeing 707-328 named “Château de Sully,” which crashed at Orly airport on June 3, 1962 while taking off on a charter flight to Atlanta via Idlewild. That plane had its first flight in 1960. Or it may be a later 707-328, also named “Château de Sully,” reportedly delivered in January 1964 and photographed at JFK in April 1964.

Jack Bolls August 5, 2008 · 2:58 pm

The gentlemen resembles Henry J Kaiser doesn’t he? Don’t know about the lady – maybe a secretary?

David August 5, 2008 · 2:59 pm

Or is it David Ben-Gurion and one of his two daughters.

James August 5, 2008 · 3:17 pm

I agree with #8; the woman, in particular, bears a striking resemblance to Vava Chagall.

Efrem August 5, 2008 · 3:34 pm

Re comment #15: definitely not Ben-Gurion, period. I remember him well from this period. A superficial resemblance but nothing more. Aside from facial differences, the hair in the photo is far too well-disciplined.

Andrew August 5, 2008 · 3:53 pm

I agree that Chagall is a strong possibility.

I think I must be the only person who doesn’t see any resemblance to Daladier at all. Anyway, in all of the pictures I’ve seen of Daladier, even at a much younger age he has significantly less hair than this fellow.

Laura August 5, 2008 · 3:57 pm

It looks like Marc and Vava Chagall.

Patrick LaForge August 5, 2008 · 4:15 pm

From the City Room

Andrew, Laura and others:

You are not the only readers to think the man is the painter Marc Chagall (some readers guessed that originally). Last week, Sewell Chan of City Room interviewed Jonathan Wilson, a professor of English at Tufts University and the author of a 2007 biography of Marc Chagall. Professor Wilson said that although the couple in the photograph bore some superficial resemblances to Chagall and his second wife, Valentina Brodsky (he called her Vava), he did not believe they were the couple in the picture.

Scrounger August 5, 2008 · 4:43 pm

If the Times or other papers have archives of Editorial cartoons and either of them were in politics, it may be possible to track facial features back to a cartoon. To do that though might take forensics software and an intern with a ton of patience (not interviewing for that job).

Kenneth Ranson August 5, 2008 · 7:08 pm

As to the history. By the clothes, I agree that this photo was taken in the late 1940s to early 1950s. Notice that the man’s tie is wide not narrow, and unfigured.

That logo on the airplane directly behind his head is very interesting. To the best of my recollection it is the logo of Vickers Supermarine. I have not been able to find a copy of the logo online, and indeed have found posts from several people who have searched for this image and come up empty. Supermarine was, of course, the company that retired the Schneider trophy for seaplanes in the 1920s. The aircraft that won those races became the basis for the Spitfire which, it may not be too much to say, prevented Allied defeat in World War II.

If I am right about the logo then the aircraft is almost certainly, a Vickers and propeller driven. This would correspond with the dates as Vickers was absorbed by British Aircraft in 1963.

Two other things strike me. First, the man’s hat is huge with a round crown. This is not an ordinary hat of the period and looks like the hats worn by left bank artistic types at that time. Second, the couple’s clothing is elegant and expensive. I suggest examining arrivals of important French artists and intellectuals for clues.

Ken Ferris August 5, 2008 · 7:45 pm

The lack of shoulder padding in the woman’s coat strongly suggests the late fifties and early sixties, the knee length of the coat and the lack of the woman’s hat say early sixties. There’s nothing in this picture that says nineteen forties.

Kenneth Ranson August 5, 2008 · 7:45 pm

I’m convinced it’s Chagall. He would have been in his early 60s. Compare with:

//images.google.com/images?ndsp=20&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Mark+Chagall+images&start=100&sa=N

third image in the first row.

David August 5, 2008 · 8:08 pm

The plane is a Boeing 707 jetliner — note the closely spaced rectangular windows. The photo, the fashions and the stylized Air France logo are circa 1959-61. See:

//www.plan59.com/airfrance.jpg